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Re: None Christians Hate Themselves

 Lou <> wrote:
 >Karen Allendoerfer wrote:
 >> >What is so hard to accept about that? It is only your bible-training that
 >> >has brainwashed you into thinking that those who don't accept the bible
 >> >must hate their lives. I love my own life; why on earth would I not?
 >> >
 >> >Jim
 >> Just to be clear here; I was trying to figure out what Pam meant, and
 >> what the Christian position was.  
 >The Christian position is that fallen man does hate himself. He does hate
 >his life. He hates himself so much that he ensures he will be eternally 
 >punished. [snip...Christian bullshit]
 Ahem.  Excuse me?  You presume to tell me how I feel about my life?
 You're obviously a very naive and unsophisticated person.  Have you
 actually read the bible?  With comprehension?  Obviously not, because
 if you had you wouldn't be able to stand behind it with such
 confidence.  What you said in the above post sounds to me like the
 kind of watered-down crap that's typically passed down from parent to
 child by word of mouth.  Try looking for most of it in your "bible"
 and you probably won't find any of it there.
 Actually, it is because I care about myself that I'm not willing to
 subject myself to the rigors of the Christian religion, or to accept
 dogma without question, or believe that atrocious and cruel acts can
 be good and righteous, or brainwash myself into fearing that if I
 screw up somehow I'll burn in hell forever, or admit that my child is
 evil from birth and beat him with a rod, or to worship a God who gives
 me free will and then demands unerring obedience, or justify and
 defend all the multitudinous inaccuracies and inconsitencies in the
 "bible".  In my opinion, the only reasons anyone would give in to
 these horrors is 1) stupidity and ignorance 2) desperation and
 lonliness 3) indoctrination in childhood and 4) fear of eternal
 damnation, the two latter being by far the most common.
 Actually, I do believe in God, and I do communicate with Him (He
 occasionally gives me advice on my life and problem solving).  Your
 bible doesn't accurately describe what I have seen in God at all.
 Your God doesn't sound so much like a God, anyway; sounds more like a
 Maybe you should let go of your childish preconceptions and really try
 in earnest to understand your religion.  Perhaps you ought to look at
 the brutal and vicious history of your religion (live "witch"burning
 and Hitler's murder of six million Jews only being a very small part).
 Perhaps you ought to look at the "Christ" in "Christian" for a change.
 I see a lot of Christians paying lipservice to the concept of Jesus as
 Lord, but I don't see anyone following his instructions to be good and
 loving and kind to everyone regardless of their level of "sin", or
 following in his footsteps.  And as to this burning in Hell forever
 bullshit, it isn't in the bible.  In Revelation there's a reference to
 a lake of fire, but there is nothing that says "eternal" lake of fire.
 Sure you'd like to defend it by saying, it's implied, it's up to
 interpretation, this other part of the bible says that it's eternal...
 But you know what?  It's all bullshit rationalization.  You can twist
 and contort just about any saying or writing to mean what you want it
 to, especially the incredibly profuse and archaic language in the
 "bible".  That seems to me to be the whole problem.  Jesus says, "Let
 the person without sin cast the first stone," meaning basically, Don't
 stone that adulterous woman, you're no better than she is, and people
 ignore it because maybe there was some junk in the old testament that
 said you not only should but are actually required to kill and maim
 and terrorize "sinful" people who never really hurt anyone, so they